The Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos
I recently saw on Hirhurim (June 14th) the pamphlet sent out by the Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos. The PDF is here. A few days after Hirhurim posted about it, I saw a stack of these pamphlets near the entrance of the Bais Medrash. As I collect these things, I took a copy. I must say, I was appalled. This is a twelve-page, full color publication, printed on card stock. Apparently, it was mailed to the whole Flatbush (correct me if I'm wrong), which is a VERY expensive proposition.
So, what's the big deal? I'll tell you the big deal. The big deal is that these people have no idea what they're doing. Let's analyze the situation: Rabbis A, B, C and D, say the Eruv is not kosher. Rabbis E, F, G and H, say the Eruv is kosher. Each position has a whole set of consequences, which I'm sure my readers appreciate. Now, what is the halachic response when one has a disagreement between poskim? Every person should follow the dictates of his or her own posek.
So, who is this committee addressing? The Talmidim of Rabbi A? They already know that they may not carry in the Eruv. The Talmidim of Rabbi E? As it happens, they may carry in the Eruv. So what's the deal?
Oh - wait! There are people who don't have a posek! They are the ones being addressed.
To the people who don't have a posek? You may not tell them the Eruv is not kosher! Look at the previous post for the sign you should disseminate (and a much cheaper one, too).
What to do with all the money saved by printing a one-page, black-and-white, on regular paper poster? Well, if the Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos is concerned with the Sanctity of Shabbos, I know of a few families who could use some extra money to put food on their table, and thereby sanctify their Shabbos. Hmm.
So, what's the big deal? I'll tell you the big deal. The big deal is that these people have no idea what they're doing. Let's analyze the situation: Rabbis A, B, C and D, say the Eruv is not kosher. Rabbis E, F, G and H, say the Eruv is kosher. Each position has a whole set of consequences, which I'm sure my readers appreciate. Now, what is the halachic response when one has a disagreement between poskim? Every person should follow the dictates of his or her own posek.
So, who is this committee addressing? The Talmidim of Rabbi A? They already know that they may not carry in the Eruv. The Talmidim of Rabbi E? As it happens, they may carry in the Eruv. So what's the deal?
Oh - wait! There are people who don't have a posek! They are the ones being addressed.
To the people who don't have a posek? You may not tell them the Eruv is not kosher! Look at the previous post for the sign you should disseminate (and a much cheaper one, too).
What to do with all the money saved by printing a one-page, black-and-white, on regular paper poster? Well, if the Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos is concerned with the Sanctity of Shabbos, I know of a few families who could use some extra money to put food on their table, and thereby sanctify their Shabbos. Hmm.
posted by MYG at 6/22/2005 10:35:00 PM
33 comments
33 Comments:
As you said, there are some people that have no regular posek or go kulah shopping. Some people might be tempted by the idea that they could carry and go to the park on Shabbos with a carriage if they join the eruv crowd, and suddenly adopt a new opinion for that reason. Presumably the committee is trying to prevent such quickie conversions.
Well then, use my poster...
Broklyn is a walled city. Anyone driving around Brooklyn can see these walls. Also, most poskm rule,rivers and the ocean are valid wals. Anyone loking at a map of Broklyn sees it's surounded by water on more than three sides. Fourth side has fences along the highway.
Also, houses around Brokyn, are walls around it. Aso if there is one dead end street any street conecting to it is alo a dead end stret. Thefore, all large cities are waled cities.
Therefore, those against the eruv don't know what they are talkg about.
I'm glad you feel that you are a great enough posek to state that so many great rabbi don't know what they are talking about. As it happens, your post seems to indicate pretty strongly that you don't know what you are talking about...
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My dear friend. Walls around Brooklyn is an obvious fact. We rule: an area surounded by walls is a reshus hayachid,just like one can carry is his house, he can carry in Brookyn. If one's againt this he's stupid.
S. Director
Last year, I wrote to all those who's signatures apear in picture boolet against eruvin in Broklyn, (and others)asking them to explain the reason why one cannot use the eruv there. They were also sent many publications from the undersinged, exlaining clear, absolute reasons, for establishing eruvin in Brooklyn. No one answered. Because, they don't have what to answer. They canot make intelegent coments to one versed in the subject. It does not take any brains to sign on a letter.
No one has any obligaton to asume that one signing on a document knows what he is talking about. Even if Moshe Rabenu signed on a document without stating a reason. His signature is worthles.
Unless he says this is what GOD told me. Signatures on documents, or letters, are not the word of GOD. However, a detaied discourse,
explainig Jewish Law is. Because, Torah writen by Torah scholars in all generations was givin on Mt. Sini.
S.Director
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Everything I publish is with my name. So if you didn't see my name I didn't publish it. More, so, I'm very caeful not to call Gdolei Yisroel vile names. Even if I might argue with them it's done with respect.
I could very well be remembering incorrectly. I'm talking about a pamphlet about eruvin (or hazra'ah me'lachis maybe?) that I threw out because of the great disrespect accorded to a gadol hador. I thought I remembered your name on it, but I trust you if you say that it wasn't.
There is no ruling in the Torah to listen to your Rabbi. The Rosh put a Rov in his generation in charem because he didn't make an eruv (Tshuvos Harosh clall 21). He didn't tell people to listen to him. Because he was their Rov.
Those against the eruv, issue rulings against leading poskim in our generation, may who have pulished many volumes, with letters they answered on many Torah topics.(Rav Menasha Klein, Rav Yechezkel Roth, Rav Krausz, and others,who rule on thousands of questions, each year, people ask them).
24 years ago, letters from 19 prominent poskim in Brooklyn,concerning ervin, was published in a newspaper in Williamsburg: and, in a prestigous Torah journal in Eretz Yisroel. Later 5,000 copies were printed and sent to leading rabbonim and others.
Also see: mail-Jewish Volume 30 number 95: and,Back Row of the Beis:The slow strikes back. On Flatbush eruv website. Were it is clearly explained that Reb Moshe Feinstein was never againt eruvin in Brooklyn. Publicity that he was are lies.Against what he wrote in Igros Moshe.
No one has any obligatin to listen to rabbonim who rule against eruvin, becase of what they saw on posters, leaflets, and in newspapers, and were too lazy to do proper research.
mr. director, regardless of where you stand on this particular issue, you obviously have a blatantly direspectful and frighteningly arrogannt tone in your postings. the discussions concerning the eruv specifically are ones, that as some other posters have pointed out, that should be discussed with ones own (hopefully) competent halachic authority. to even suggest that an individual need not concern themselves with the opinion of that authority if that authority in fact deems the eruv halachically invalid is astonishing. perhaps the eruv should be the least of your concerns.
and one more thing mr director. the assertion that the signatories you mentioned have some sort of responsability to answer your questions regarding the eruv, is at best, entertaining. simply put, they dont. in addition, if the tone of your letter to them had even a shred of the disrespect that your postings did, i, for one, am happy that they disregarded it. if it was even brought to their attention, which it likely did not.
They did't answer, because they are stupid, and don't have what to answer. Literature (most of it) did not have insulting remarks. It was a discussion of the the halacha. Mostly, without any remarks, about any one.
You comment on literature I wrote, without even seeing it--very stupid.
Also, please be advised, this writer is author of many books on various subjects of Torah Law. And, just as smart, and knowledgeable, as those in the picture book. I was a Rosh Yeshiva in various Yeshios and now retired.
I might add, my son Moshe, my student, far greater in Torah a thousnd times than those in picure book and is head of a collel in Boro Pk.,laughed at picture book.Becaue he read liturature on the subject and is not interested in picturs.He wants to see Torah .
Also, please be advised, I republished 3 books on eruvin, writtn by outstandng Torah scholars that lived 100 years ago.Discussing eruvin in large cities. One is about the eruv in Manhatan in 1908(all are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788).
Those in the picture booklet never learned them or are capable of understanding them. Because, if they studied these books, they would not be against eruvin in Brooklyn.
Also, please be advised, promient Rabonim in our generation
(Rabbis, Menasha Klein, Yehezkel Roth, Sholom Krauz,The Mukatcher Rebbi and others)wrote books explaining clearly why an eruv can be established in Brookyn.
Their addresses, and telephone numbers, are in the phone book,if you care to buy their books or discuss the matter with them.
I, or anyone else, have no obligation to follow a ruling, on any matter, by those who sign on letters, or posters, without statig a reason. More, so, when there is a vast amount of literature on this subject explaing clearly why one can make an eruv.
My brazen tone in my postes is because I hate liars, and stupid people, who rule on a subject witout learing it.
They did't answer, because they are stupid, and don't have what to answer. Literature (most of it) did not have insulting remarks. It was a discussion of the the halacha. Mostly, without any remarks, about any one.
You comment on literature I wrote, without even seeing it--very stupid.
Also, please be advised, this writer is author of many books on various subjects of Torah Law. And, just as smart, and knowledgeable, as those in the picture book. I was a Rosh Yeshiva in various Yeshios and now retired.
I might add, my son Moshe, my student, far greater in Torah a thousnd times than those in picure book and is head of a collel in Boro Pk.,laughed at picture book.Becaue he read liturature on the subject and is not interested in picturs.He wants to see Torah .
Also, please be advised, I republished 3 books on eruvin, writtn by outstandng Torah scholars that lived 100 years ago.Discussing eruvin in large cities. One is about the eruv in Manhatan in 1908(all are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788).
Those in the picture booklet never learned them or are capable of understanding them. Because, if they studied these books, they would not be against eruvin in Brooklyn.
Also, please be advised, promient Rabonim in our generation
(Rabbis, Menasha Klein, Yehezkel Roth, Sholom Krauz,The Mukatcher Rebbi and others)wrote books explaining clearly why an eruv can be established in Brookyn.
Their addresses, and telephone numbers, are in the phone book,if you care to buy their books or discuss the matter with them.
I, or anyone else, have no obligation to follow a ruling, on any matter, by those who sign on letters, or posters, without statig a reason. More, so, when there is a vast amount of literature on this subject explaing clearly why one can make an eruv.
My brazen tone in my postes is because I hate liars, and stupid people, who rule on a subject witout learing it.
They did't answer, because they are stupid, and don't have what to answer. Literature (most of it) did not have insulting remarks. It was a discussion of the the halacha. Mostly, without any remarks, about any one.
You comment on literature I wrote, without even seeing it--very stupid.
Also, please be advised, this writer is author of many books on various subjects of Torah Law. And, just as smart, and knowledgeable, as those in the picture book. I was a Rosh Yeshiva in various Yeshios and now retired.
I might add, my son Moshe, my student, far greater in Torah a thousnd times than those in picure book and is head of a collel in Boro Pk.,laughed at picture book.Becaue he read liturature on the subject and is not interested in picturs.He wants to see Torah .
Also, please be advised, I republished 3 books on eruvin, writtn by outstandng Torah scholars that lived 100 years ago.Discussing eruvin in large cities. One is about the eruv in Manhatan in 1908(all are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788).
Those in the picture booklet never learned them or are capable of understanding them. Because, if they studied these books, they would not be against eruvin in Brooklyn.
Also, please be advised, promient Rabonim in our generation
(Rabbis, Menasha Klein, Yehezkel Roth, Sholom Krauz,The Mukatcher Rebbi and others)wrote books explaining clearly why an eruv can be established in Brookyn.
Their addresses, and telephone numbers, are in the phone book,if you care to buy their books or discuss the matter with them.
I, or anyone else, have no obligation to follow a ruling, on any matter, by those who sign on letters, or posters, without statig a reason. More, so, when there is a vast amount of literature on this subject explaing clearly why one can make an eruv.
My brazen tone in my postes is because I hate liars, and stupid people, who rule on a subject witout learing it.
They did't answer, because they are stupid, and don't have what to answer. Literature (most of it) did not have insulting remarks. It was a discussion of the the halacha. Mostly, without any remarks, about any one.
You comment on literature I wrote, without even seeing it--very stupid.
Also, please be advised, this writer is author of many books on various subjects of Torah Law. And, just as smart, and knowledgeable, as those in the picture book. I was a Rosh Yeshiva in various Yeshios and now retired.
I might add, my son Moshe, my student, far greater in Torah a thousnd times than those in picure book and is head of a collel in Boro Pk.,laughed at picture book.Becaue he read liturature on the subject and is not interested in picturs.He wants to see Torah .
Also, please be advised, I republished 3 books on eruvin, writtn by outstandng Torah scholars that lived 100 years ago.Discussing eruvin in large cities. One is about the eruv in Manhatan in 1908(all are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788).
Those in the picture booklet never learned them or are capable of understanding them. Because, if they studied these books, they would not be against eruvin in Brooklyn.
Also, please be advised, promient Rabonim in our generation
(Rabbis, Menasha Klein, Yehezkel Roth, Sholom Krauz,The Mukatcher Rebbi and others)wrote books explaining clearly why an eruv can be established in Brookyn.
Their addresses, and telephone numbers, are in the phone book,if you care to buy their books or discuss the matter with them.
I, or anyone else, have no obligation to follow a ruling, on any matter, by those who sign on letters, or posters, without statig a reason. More, so, when there is a vast amount of literature on this subject explaing clearly why one can make an eruv.
My brazen tone in my postes is because I hate liars, and stupid people, who rule on a subject witout learing it.
They did't answer, because they are stupid, and don't have what to answer. Literature (most of it) did not have insulting remarks. It was a discussion of the the halacha. Mostly, without any remarks, about any one.
You comment on literature I wrote, without even seeing it--very stupid.
Also, please be advised, this writer is author of many books on various subjects of Torah Law. And, just as smart, and knowledgeable, as those in the picture book. I was a Rosh Yeshiva in various Yeshios and now retired.
I might add, my son Moshe, my student, far greater in Torah a thousnd times than those in picure book and is head of a collel in Boro Pk.,laughed at picture book.Becaue he read liturature on the subject and is not interested in picturs.He wants to see Torah .
Also, please be advised, I republished 3 books on eruvin, writtn by outstandng Torah scholars that lived 100 years ago.Discussing eruvin in large cities. One is about the eruv in Manhatan in 1908(all are available by sending $25.00 to P.O.B. 786, Woodbourne, N Y 12788).
Those in the picture booklet never learned them or are capable of understanding them. Because, if they studied these books, they would not be against eruvin in Brooklyn.
Also, please be advised, promient Rabonim in our generation
(Rabbis, Menasha Klein, Yehezkel Roth, Sholom Krauz,The Mukatcher Rebbi and others)wrote books explaining clearly why an eruv can be established in Brookyn.
Their addresses, and telephone numbers, are in the phone book,if you care to buy their books or discuss the matter with them.
I, or anyone else, have no obligation to follow a ruling, on any matter, by those who sign on letters, or posters, without statig a reason. More, so, when there is a vast amount of literature on this subject explaing clearly why one can make an eruv.
My brazen tone in my postes is because I hate liars, and stupid people, who rule on a subject witout learing it.
Also see posts by Shiah Director on this website "Back Row of the Beis", "Just Passing Through", and Michael Jackson" etc.
I think the comment beginning, "Your full of..." effectively demonstrates why there is no need to respond to this gentleman...
Just for the record, I didn't say the Eruv was or was not kosher. I said to ask your rabbi. If you happen to be a practicing rabbi, you can advise your congregants what to do. They should listen to you. If someone else asks his rabbi, and he permits it or forbids it, it is none of your business.
Recently, I published a booklet,Eruv Isser an Analysis, with letters sent to those in picture booklet,(and others) with some of the literature I sent them.It's available by sending $2.00 to P.O.B.786, Woodbourne,NY 12788.
Poster from 5739 (1979), against eruvin in Brooklyn, with 50+ signatures, widely publicized, is a fraud.
1. Stated there: there was an isser, in 5722, to make eruvin in all cities with a population of 600,000. However, in documet from 5722,it states:this isser was only for Manhattan.This is also stated in Igros Moshe4:86. Document fron 5722 is available from, Eruv Society of Boro Park,1419 44th St., Brooklyn, N Y
11219.
2. Reb Moshe Feinstein, never signed on this document, against what he wrote in Igros Moshe (ibid), and against facts known to him. Obviously, his signature was forged.
3.It's stated in document from 5739, Rav Henkin signed document from 5722: however, his name is not there.More, so, there's a letter from him suporting eruvin in Manhatan.Availale, at adress above, from Eruv Society of Boro Park.
4. Those signing on fradulent doument from 5739(with all due respect), had a holy obligation to talk with Rabonim of Flatbush,before signing on a document against them, and shaming them publicly. Torah Law in all generatins, was only decided after discusions betwen parties involed. Signatures on posters, more, so, forged signatures,and signatures on lies, are not the word of GOD.
5. Had they done this, they would have been advised.
a. Reb Moshe Feinstin approved of their project.
b. Rav Hutner, Rosh Yeshiva of Chiam Berlin, also aproved of it.
c. Yaser Rov,a prominent posik in Flatbsuh, approved of their project.
d. Letters were sent to other porminet Rabonim,asking for their
opinion. Only Rav Menasha Klein replied,with a 46 page booklet (not a signature),approvng of eruvin in Broklyn.
f. Fact is: those signing against eruvin in BOOKLYN,signed aginst Reb Moshe Feinstein.
Noteworthy, is arguement between the Mishcanos Yaakov and Beis Efriam. Miskanos Yakov, relying on a ruling fron Villna Gaon, and citing reliable proofs supporting his ruling, claimed: any street 16 amos (20-24 feet)wide with people going on it is a reshus harabim.Bais Efriam, after citing reliable proofs, claimed 600,000 people going on a street, in one day, make it a reshus harabim. His ruling is folowed. Because, according to Mishcanos Yaakov, most eruvin in Errope were possel.
However, many great Torah scholars, held like the Miscanos Yakov. Nevertheless, he did not run around and get signatures from those who agreed with him. Because he clearly understood, Torah Law is decided by disussing it. Not by signatures on posters or letters.
Discussion on this matter, between Mishcanos Yakov and Bais Efriam, was preserved for all future generations, to learn and ponder on. Their Torah lit up the world: and, helped Torah scholars, in all generations understand the subject.
Where as signatures on posters, something never done in the history of the Jewish people, only mix up the public, who think there is validity to these signatures, signed before learning the subject clearly: and, discussing the matter with other Torah scholars.
Pro eruv people also could have gotten Rabbonim to sign on a poster approving eruvin. They also
could have printed a booklet with pictures of Rabbonim, with grey beards, who agree with them.
However, they understood, this is not the way to decide Torah Law. It was never done. Rabbonim, in all generations, printed essays, and gave lectures explaining their views.
lectures, explaining their views.
Information and documents about eruvin can be obtained at fax no.718-438-7411
Those who read carefuly posts by this writer, and call faz number of Eruv Society of Boro Park, cited above.Will be rewarded by the ALMIGHTY for seeking the truth. May they be blessed.
My dear holy brothers. You must understand. Linzer Rov, Rabbi Weider, official dayon of Klausenberger Cong. in Boro Pk., numbering 800+ members, answers more questions on Jewish Law then anyone in picture book. More people ask him shailos than they ask Hillel David, and all the others, in picture book. He also has a grey beard: and, could take a picture for a picture book.
He ruled: eruv in Boro Pk. is kosher. Same ruling applies to Flatbush. There is no difference between Boro Pk. and Flatbush. However, he and many other Rabbonim in Bro Pk., don't want to get into a fight with those in picture book and others in Flatbush.
Rav Menasha Klein, one of the greatest Torah scholars in our generation, who has published 17 volumes of answers to questions he answerd, people all over the world, and many other works,
also has a grey beard. Recently, he published a 500 page book on validity of eruvin in Brooklyn. (If anyone wants it. Call him. His telephone no. is in tel. book.)
Yechezkel Roth, (with grey beard) is author of six volumes of answers to questions he answered people all over the world. With many tshuvos about eruvin in Brookly.
Rav Fishel Heshkowitz, Rov of Klausenberger Cong. in Williamsburg. One of the leading poskim of our generation.
Answers thousands of questions on Jewish Law each year. Approved of eruvin in Brooklyn. He says
complete thilim every day, praying to the ALMIGHTY, he should not rule falsly.
He is unknown to the general public in Flatbush. Because, he is not a member of Agudas Yisroel, Agudas Harabbonim, or any other group, who publicize their Gedolim. He's a quiet man that learns Torah all day.
Picture book is a vicious ploy. To impress the ignorant that there are reliable people against the eruv in Flatbush. While, truth is, all reliable Rabbonim are in favor of it.
Those in picture book are not equal to them, in Torah scholarship. They have not published one word explaining their rediculous stand. They never will publish anything explaining their position against eruvin. Because, they have nothing to publish.
They only quote Reb Moshe Feinstein, of blessed memory: but, they misquoted him. Because, he told any one who asked him, including Rav Menasha Klein, they can make an eruv. This is stated openly in his letter to Rabbonim of Flatbush(Igros Moshe 4:87). Not quoted in picture book.
He was also against any protest against eruvin in Brooklyn (ibid.) So why are ani-eruv people protesting, printing picture books, and ridiculing those who make eruvin? Exactly the opposite of Reb Moshe's ruling.
Answer is, they are not leading poskim in our generation, like those aformentioned(and many others not mentioned). They just don't know what they are doing. They have a mental imbalance and
should see a doctor.Because, they are sick people.
Recently a booklet was published, about eruvin in Brooklyn, containing many facts unknown to the general public,and distributed door to door in Flatbush.
If smeone wants this booklet: LETTERS BY RABBI SHIAH DIRECTOR, writeto:P.O.B. 786, WOODBOURNE, N Y 12788
Director - are you an Ungvarer Chossid ?
Why didn't you say that your son that you mentioned is head of the kollel of the Ungvarer Rebbe ?
I heard that a prominent godol of the past once slapped Director on the face after hearing his chutzpah.
That's your problem you "HEAR" things. First find out if what you "HEAR" is correct.
Problem with anti-eruv people is they "hear" things and are too lazy to study the subject of eruvin from reliable sources.
Yes I am brazen. Because I hate stupid people and those who are too lazy to learn Torah.
I hate people who talk when they don't know what they are talking about
My son was head of the Ungvar Collel. Two years ago he started his own collel and yeshiva located at 59th street and 17th Ave.
NAME OF HIS COLLEL IS TORAS SHIMON
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